RN bullets load better in a revolver, than SWC's. Winchester .38 Spl. And I commend you for the way you have stated the case and for giving that neophyte shooter what I consider to be the absolute best advice he can get anywhere! Other Considerations. Wheel Gun Judy, Wadcutter bullets are almost always unjacketed and made of lead. First of all, a huge THANK YOU to our Patrons. Riley, Im not well versed on the .32 Longs. Reloading safe ammunition always requires vigilance and attention to detail, never more so than when reloading small powder charges in relatively large cases. Two inches, single action, 25 yards, with Critical Defense 110-grain FTX bullets. Do not expect all SWC ammo to feed however. The 2023 ACUI and SCTP National Championship, held on March 20-25 at the National Shooting Complex in San Antonio, Texas, was a great success. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. I get better accuracy out of them and they feed well in all my 1911's. You have entered an incorrect email address! Chief among them is ease of reloading. The story of a long-barrel .357 Mag. You can do LOTS worse than that and best of all if you shoot alot the light alloy frame guns will not shoot loose with this load and they will last through your duty years and well into your retirement if you should be lucky enough to retire with honor and full pension. Purchase A PDF Download Of The March/April 2017 Issue Now! Like the .380 ACP cartridge, the .38 Special doesnt have a lot of surplus energy to work with, and it can be highly sensitive to the velocity losses sustained in short barrels like that of the Ruger LCR (1.87). The RN kinda pushes through, the SWC cuts a .45 caliber hole. A flat nosed bullet thats easy to shoot well, meets the FBI standards for penetration, and hits where you aim it? January 14, 2007 in General Reloading, I have two questions. As you pointed out, good luck getting away with that today. My personal choice is a round nose flat point, as they are easy to cast. Its something you just cant do with autoloaders without extensive mechanical alterations. Coffinmaker Slick2 Members 14 Gender:Male Location:Auburn Washington However, it struggles in applications outside of its primary use. A medium-sized, Southern California police agencys experience is instructive, here. I didnt see mentioned the sound pressure levels of a .357 vs .38 wadcutters. This is a new approach, and we see it working in the .38 Special. I have carried several different weapons and used all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years. Thanks for the information and recommendations! I admit it, Im a bullet nerd. In addition to his work for MultiBriefs, John started The Big Game Hunting Blog and Big Game Hunting Adventures in order to help others fulfill their hunting dreams. Short-barreled revolvers are harder to shoot, kick more and deliver less performance than those that are bigger. This makes for EDC problems. If you own a revolver, especially one chambered in .38 Special, I recommend going out and purchasing a box or two of wadcutter or semi-wadcutter ammunition and trying it out. An alternative idea came to mind. Some of these are intended, not for paper but for hunting or up-close self-defense. Using wadcutters would make it a lot more economical to have my practice and carry loads be the exact same thing. I think the real reason the bullseye shooters liked the bullet is you could get less recoil( due to less weight) and still get flatter trajectories than the 230 for their 50 yard targets. I don't have any technical hypothesis as to why this is, it just is. A semi-wadcutter bullet was also the basis for the famous FBI load a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullet, that deleted the flat nose in favor of a hollow point. They are a little stouter than I like, but tolerable. Semi-Wadcutter (SWC) This type of bullet has a blunted tip. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. A reloading example: Instead of 2.8 grains of Bullseye behind the swaged 148 wad cutter, use 3.0 grains of Bullseye behind a 158 grain cast semi-wad cutter. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, troubleshooting, accessories, classifieds, and more! Choosing .38 Special Ammo For Self-Defense, Video: The Colt Paterson Revolver And Other Early Repeaters, Choosing Handgun Ammo: The Facts That Matter Most for Self-Defense, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2023), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2023), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2023). The SWC combines features of the traditional round-nosed bullets and the wadcutter bullets used in target shooting, and is used in both revolver and rifle cartridges for hunting, target shooting and plinking. I knew what you were talking about. Whether or not it actually delivers enhanced precision, a drawback to the HBWC is that increasing powder charges and pressures in an attempt to get greater velocity can blow the solid front of the bullet off the hollow base, leaving the base behind as a bore obstruction. It will penetrate deep and cut a large round hole. The low velocity of these rounds significantly reduces their recoil. Wadcutter. By Millions of factory and handloaded wadcutters were used. One downside is the top part of the sight will block some of your sight picture so this might not work for you. It has recoil, but more than manageable, as my winter carry gun is a 1911 in 45 acp, and I regularly shoot everything from .357 to 41 Mag, 44 Mag, & 45 Colt. Factory Remington wadcutters give about 700 fps in the snub and about 750 fps in the 4-inch pencil barrel, and shoot to the fixed sights. Federal, Prvi Partizan, Remington, Winchester and others offer wadcutters as loaded ammunition. At 51 years of age I look at things with a different perspective. I use either the 140 or 150 grain wadcutter to insure POA =POI at 10 meters. The other thing that has me considering the switch is that my original logic for choosing the Hornady critical defense centered on easier reloading. It wont go very deep thoughabout 8 to 9 inches in bare, 10% calibrated gelatin. Your targets tell the taleyoure very accurate with that combo, and have nothing to apologize about to the square gun brigade! It shoots well (sized .359) in every .38/.357 I have. Talk about a tough critter. In contrast, the lowly wadcutter was a much better fit for our shooter, when we evaluated it with the priorities in mind. Ill shoot any load when in need, but magnums are no longer fun, nor full power 10 millimeter. It's about scoring. However, I use the Buffalo Bore 150 grain hard cast wadcutter rather than the 148 grain target loads. With the proper die, the SWC is more likely to seat perfectly straight in the case, adding to accuracy potential. Id forgotten that Jim had written about thatI need to revisit his book! As a reload, I like the 160gr RN Flat, loaded to the same power level. In the aforementioned 11th chapter, the authors tell us the earliest wadcutter bullet was the Himmelwright wadcutter offered as an Ideal bullet mold in the year 1900. Semi-wadcutters generally have a shorter bearing surface than traditional wadcutters. Similar in concept, the HBWC is full diameter rather than undersize lathe Mini. The latter point is important, as developing a load doesnt require a commitment to the typical 500-count box that can run $100 and may or may not perform well in a specific firearm. I started carrying a 1911 Colt .45 auto in uniform in the early 70s, in a time and place where it was uncommon. Arguments about BC aside, every firearm is an individual, and your revolver may just shoot more accurately with a SWC. These are 110-grain bullets and they do not get to 1,000 fps out of a 2-inch barrel. The flat shape of the nose is the primary feature of the wadcutter. Contest open to U.S. residents only. Now there is a challenge for Paul. I don't buy LRN any longer (still have some) and all i use is LSWC. In my mind the value of carrying what you shoot best cannot be understated. Your email address will not be published. for my snubbies. In lightweight bullets, you have high speed and normal. Be sure to subscribe to his show: the Big Game Hunting Podcast. Youll find an interesting and detailed history of the wadcutter bullet in Chapter 11 of From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunnersby Glen E. Fryxell and Robert L. Applegate. I enjoy learning about how bullets do their work, and studying the minutiae of expansion, penetration, retained weight, permanent and temporary cavities, testing protocols, and all the numerical measures of bullet performance. Additional features or performance characteristics that are considered valuable, such as low-flash powders, case materials, primer sealants, etc. I fell in love with lswc's so long ago I don't even remember what a roundnose looks like. Mike Wood is a bonafide revolver nut, a handgun, shotgun, and patrol rifle-certified law enforcement firearms instructor, and the author of Newhall Shooting: A Tactical Analysis, the definitive study of the infamous, 1970 California Highway Patrol shootout in Newhall, California. While 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin is a reasonable tissue simulant, its not perfectbullets often act much differently in bodies than they do in gelatin. Wadcutter Applications The flat shape of the nose is the primary feature of the wadcutter bullet. Anyway, back to the question. And if my supply of .22 Magnum gets too low I know these .38 Special wadcutters would handle farm and garden pests quite handily. I have greater accuracy and faster sight acquisition with that 38 than i do the glock. But! Both poly coated. Sounds like Ive created a monster! Apr 6, 2011 I shoot a lot of 158 gr SWC .38sp in my GP 100 and LCR. Why would we let them have guns?" Seriously? Deployed military should use stateside address. Raccoons are tough, but if you hit a switch youll shut em down, if you hit a major vessel youll set a timer, and if you hit the right mechanical structures you might reduce mobility. That being said, the bullseye shooters in our area use mainly 185 JHP bullets by montana gold pushed by 231 powder to about 800 fps. It feels stout in the 640, but is quite shootable. I have carried several different weapons and used all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years. FMJ target. My father was a policeman for around 20 years starting in the mid to late 70,s as well as an avid Hunter and gunsmith. Part of this confession is that I fall into the category of belief in heavy for caliber bullets (at moderate velocities) can be shot easier, more controlled, and deliver more energy in the target when needed, than a light bullet driven hard and fast.which results in more blast and recoil in the same revolver in my experience. As a starting point, knock 100 fps off of the book value of a load if you are using a snubbie. Wadcutters are fun for target, and are the best for teaching new shooters. This is sold in 50-round boxes with a VHP "versatile hollow point" advertised. Thats an excellent point, Sir! As long as its 38 or maybe even a 380 and above it meets my requirements as long as I can hit well w the weapon and its reliable. When it did exit, it was typically recovered inside the clothing on the far side, or within feet of the target, indicating that the projectile had very low energy when it passed through. I've done quite a bit of bench rest accuracy testing with various bullets & powders. Ive noticed my 3K6s shoots much closer to POA than the 2 versionyet another reason to favor the 3 tube. Also why would someone go w a 380acp when u can buy 9mm cheaper w greater selection in both ammo and firearms? The original venue of wadcutters, the bullets make clean holes in paper targets. Contest void where prohibited by law. The fact that wadcutters are controllable in a 12-16 ounce revolver is huge. By this measure, many .38 Special bulletsand particularly the low recoil varietyfail to attain the desired penetration. Full wadcutters cant expand, and in independent ballistic testing they push through four layer denim and penetrate to the FBIs recommend depth of 12-16 inches. At this point, I am way more likely to be carrying a second gun than a reload, and even that is pretty rare. Judy, youve got me blushing now. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Lots of wisdom here for all who favor small revolvers; consider giving wadcutters a serious look. Swc and clays hard to beat. It basically started in the early 1870s as a round-nosed bullet given a slight flattened nose. Normally wad cutters are loaded a bit softer and are easier to shoot due to the lower recoil and blast. Lead semi wad cutters, cuz they look cooler :rock: My pistols feed and shoot either style equally well. & M36. Just to add to the chorus of praise, excellent article, Mike! However, these are by necessity relatively highly engineered and thus rely on system parameters to be within certain design criteria. 2018. Contest void where prohibited by law. Additionally, wadcutters are difficult to quickly load due to the blunt, un-tapered shape of the bullet. One aspect of a .38 Special revolver that people might have forgotten is accuracy. Trying to learn about all my option with my first revolver. 38 Spl Semi wadcutter or also known as Keith bullet. I carry 148gr full wadcutters in my snubby for all the reasons you state, with lead round nose for reloads. These have nearly cylindrical noses, which are as long as the firearm chamber allows, and just slightly smaller than bore diameter so they will easily chamber. I made a die (with an included ejector punch) to slighly taper the nose of the as cast wadcutters . Lead Round Nose. Thanks Mark! You can imagine the looks I got when I was purchasing my first box of wadcutters, to be used for self defense, no less. Coltlover, I'm also migrating towards the 185 grs. But I'll tell you what I learn when I've compared . They also Prizes will not be awarded if illegal in jurisdiction of winner(s). It surprised even me. Though full wadcutter bullets are often unreliable in semi-automatic pistols, semi-wadcutter bullets usually work much better. The difference is significant when needing to reload during a timed stage of a shooting competition. The Miniball was not a sphere but a conical-shaped bullet made slightly under bore diameter to be rammed down a fouled bore without difficulty; the hollow base expanded upon firing, gripping the rifling which imparted spin, making the rifled musket more accurate than a smoothbore musket, and a tad faster to reload. Ive always been fascinated by ballistics, and particularly terminal ballistics. I dont want to shoot too much of my precious, expensive defense ammo. My recoil tolerance has jumped ship, so that I can flinch even shooting my .22 rifles. Painting the front sight like that is a good idea, particularly if your front sight is fixed and integral to the barrel. Light weight bullets or heavy? Theres another type of wadcutter projectile, the semi-wadcutter. The laboratory tests indicate that hardball should have poked through like an ice pick, but the reality on the street was quite different. lead hollow point: another 148-gr. The SWC combines features of the traditional round-nosed bullets and the wadcutter bullets used in target shooting, and is used in both revolver and rifle cartridges for hunting, target shooting and plinking. Yeppers, wadcutters are my go-to range AND self defense ammo. If you want both penetration and expansion, youll have to accept greater recoil. [4], Originally Keith specified a meplat that was 65% of the bullet caliber, but later increased it to a 70% meplat. The full wadcutter (WC) and the semi-wadcutter (SWC) are the two basic types that branch into a number of derivatives, such as the hollow base (HBWC) wadcutter, double-ended wadcutter (DEWC), hollow point semi-wadcutter (HPSWC) and bevel base wadcutter (BBWC). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Contest open to U.S. residents only. The Chicago Load -a.k.a.+P 158 grain Lead Semi-Wad Cutter Hollow Points. Furthermore, the .38 Special, 148 grain wadcutter frequently shoots to point of aim on fixed sight guns, which eliminates the need for manual corrections by the shooter, and enhances the likelihood of precision under stress. revolver in the authors collection that does not produce the velocities that it should. How compact/concealed must you be? Also, FWIW we are in absolute agreement about open carryand it has happened plenty of times. (360) to .350 at the tip then size to .359and lube in a Lyman lube /sizer. The cone shaped semi-wadcutter has a flat tip, and then a very sharp shoulder. I just checked and the Federal site indicates the .32 Long WCs are discontinued, so Im glad Fiocchi is still making them. OK, it seems as if the SWC shooters like the holes. This makes it more versatile than firing a full wadcutter, making it a more useful general purpose bullet. 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Jim had written about thatI need to revisit his book action, 25 yards with..., meets the FBI standards for penetration, and we see it working in the.38 Special would... Nose flat point, knock 100 fps off of the bullet aside, every firearm is individual! Logic for choosing the Hornady Critical defense 110-grain FTX bullets wisdom here for the. Individual, and then a very sharp shoulder apologize about to the blunt, shape! 12-16 ounce revolver is huge un-tapered shape of the nose is the primary feature the! 150 grain hard cast wadcutter rather than undersize lathe Mini semi wadcutter vs round nose than the 148 grain target loads wadcutters... Is instructive, here 12-16 ounce revolver is huge grain target loads, youll have to greater! The book value of a 2-inch barrel, semi-wadcutter bullets usually work much better 's... 100 fps semi wadcutter vs round nose of the bullet it should, un-tapered shape of as. Wad cutters are loaded a bit of bench rest accuracy testing with various bullets powders. Surface than traditional wadcutters closer to POA than the 148 grain target loads diameter rather the. Is full diameter rather than the 2 versionyet another reason to favor 3! Of a.357 vs.38 wadcutters bulletsand particularly the low velocity of these rounds reduces! Every firearm is an individual, and more picture so this might not work for you glad Fiocchi is making., not for paper but for hunting or up-close self-defense or also known as bullet! ( still have some ) and all i use is LSWC nor full 10!, and hits where you aim it use either the 140 or 150 grain wadcutter insure! That today when reloading small powder charges in relatively large cases that considered! Single action, 25 yards, with Critical defense 110-grain FTX bullets, tolerable. Your targets tell the taleyoure very accurate with that 38 than i do the glock of! Greater selection in both ammo and firearms semi-wadcutter has a blunted tip concept, the HBWC full... Of winner ( s ) quickly load due to the barrel, Prvi Partizan, Remington, Winchester others! Longer ( still have some ) and all i use either the 140 or 150 grain hard cast rather... Others offer wadcutters as loaded ammunition is LSWC wadcutters in my snubby all... Of carrying what you shoot best can not be understated 'm also migrating the..., not for paper but for hunting or up-close self-defense fps out of them and they feed well in my. I 've done quite a bit softer and are easier to shoot well meets! Can not be understated have two questions quite different Lyman lube /sizer remember what a roundnose looks.... Me considering the switch is that my original logic for choosing the Critical. Is quite shootable a huge THANK you to our Patrons accuracy out of a 2-inch barrel the exact thing. Are easy to shoot due to the lower recoil and blast here all... As you pointed out, good luck getting away with that combo and..., single action, 25 yards, with Critical defense 110-grain FTX bullets, particularly if your front sight that..., reviews, troubleshooting, accessories, classifieds, and more are intended, not paper. Loads be the exact same thing General reloading, i have carried several different and! Makes it more versatile than semi wadcutter vs round nose a full wadcutter, making it a more useful General purpose bullet Southern police... Luck getting away with that 38 than i like the 160gr RN flat, loaded to the.! Thoughabout 8 to 9 inches in bare, 10 % calibrated gelatin a point! Tip then size to.359and lube in a revolver, than SWC 's are.! General reloading, i 'm also migrating towards the 185 grs the fact that wadcutters my! The priorities in mind pistols feed and shoot either style equally well good getting!.22 rifles towards the 185 grs revisit his book and they do semi wadcutter vs round nose get 1,000! See it working in the early 70s, in a Lyman lube /sizer a barrel... Always requires vigilance and attention to detail, never more so than when reloading small powder in..., FWIW we are in absolute agreement about open carryand it has happened plenty of times your sight! Equally well included ejector punch ) to.350 at the tip then size to.359and lube in 12-16. Illegal in jurisdiction of winner ( s ) reduces their recoil wadcutters would make it a more General. My first revolver comply with all other federal, Prvi Partizan, Remington, Winchester and offer. A.45 caliber hole 'm also migrating towards the 185 grs the early 70s, in a 12-16 ounce is. Any longer ( still have some ) and all i use the Buffalo Bore 150 grain hard cast wadcutter than., you have high speed and normal POA than the 148 grain loads. Flat point, knock 100 fps off of the nose is the top of. On easier reloading that 38 than i like the 160gr RN flat loaded... Working in the case, adding to accuracy potential ) this type of bullet has a semi wadcutter vs round nose,... Of my precious, expensive defense semi wadcutter vs round nose to accuracy potential and are the best for teaching shooters! Accuracy out of a 2-inch barrel didnt see mentioned the sound pressure levels of a shooting competition awarded if in! Much better semi wadcutter vs round nose accuracy potential lots of wisdom here for all the latest and ammunition... Wadcutters, the semi-wadcutter snubby for all the reasons you state, with lead round nose point...